Nuxx:MPG.26f1e7b0e33767bc9897dd@news.zen.co.uk

Path: num1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!number.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!novia!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.straub-nv.de!weretis.net!feeder4.news.weretis.net!matrix.darkstorm.co.uk!nntp-feed.chiark.greenend.org.uk!ewrotcd!feeds.news.ox.ac.uk!news.ox.ac.uk!zen.net.uk!hamilton.zen.co.uk!prichard.zen.co.uk.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID:  From: Guy Cuthbertson  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling,cam.transport,uk.rec.driving Subject: Re: How To Discourage Motoring Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 19:35:03 +0100 References:   <1283780716.122467@irys.nyx.net>  <1283787978.880623@irys.nyx.net>  <8ekokiF1qlU1@mid.individual.net>  <8emit8F4qvU1@mid.individual.net>  <8enoqjFjnnU1@mid.individual.net>  Lines: 38 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: MicroPlanet-Gravity/2.9.14 Organization: Zen Internet NNTP-Posting-Host: 8ad6c221.news.zen.co.uk X-Trace: DXC=;=Gog]nGIPHMQjRofn0MVB0g@SS;SF6nGRiiCXJE[K>G@blk2mB^Hn@`:ITG5aA:cG5E6?KIoSIRB X-Complaints-To: abuse@zen.co.uk Bytes: 3666 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:779617

In article , ian@astounding.org.uk says... > > Further - if, as you say, use of speed cameras causes fewer traffic > police, then all those places that have decided to do away with > cameras (Swindon, Oxford, etc) will now be employing more traffic > police, won't they. Can you show that that is the case?

Ian, now that speed cameras have been switched off in Oxfordshire, what do you think will happen to the KSI rate there? And how about Swindon? Are you surprised that the KSI rate hasn't gone up there in the year since the cameras were switched off there? Are you expecting it to go up soon?

If you do genuinely think that KSIs in both areas are about to shoot up as a direct result of no longer having the magic accident-reducing machines, then please say so, and people can refer back to this thread in years to come (and hopefully you will have the decency to apologise if you're proven wrong). But if (as I suspect, with you and pretty much everyone else) you don't really think KSIs will change much then I have to ask why you support cameras at all? I know that with Chapman and co, it's because they hate cars, but I don't think that's the case with you.

Also, what do you think about Brake taking most of their donations from Speed Check Services (SPECS manufacturers) and others who benefit financially from the (ab)use of cameras? Isn't that likely to cause Brake to advocate cameras whether or not they actually improve safety? Indeed, it does seem like they and other "safety" groups who are making money through cameras are very keen to stop them being switched off, and I think that's because they're worried that if they're switched off everywhere and KSIs don't go up then they won't be able to use the "safety" excuse anymore and they'll have to find a new way of scamming the public. Do you think there's any chance that I'm right about that?

Some questions that I really would be interested to hear your answers to, and that I hope you won't duck because they're too difficult (that's the sort of thing Chapman would do, and I know you don't approve of his dishonest methods).