Nuxx:J7r9e4t9hjv84dueib29p3j3edu51jrb7v@4ax.com

Path: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local02.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.pipex.net!news.pipex.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID:  From: Crapman Must Go  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling Subject: Re: Enough! Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 17:01:14 +0100 References:     <9d11dbbd-8509-40f2-9af8-875e76974e92@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> <6fb5abb7-981d-486a-8b27-43d05ef0fda3@d70g2000hsc.googlegroups.com> Lines: 42 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2008 11:02:33 -0500 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 88.105.146.155 X-Trace: sv3-Sxrv9AYwu+2omxrP9+NLt+09ssinZgXbnmfR1tdVvc+18fIXFtOjSMZBg682M6nOYCxaBzzgHh4de1A!0XAKaElrBqiqlmhxtPx3R+k7zBAeIFfJtfUna7xgb0HzG0bTKxU13zBDCNwDYuJL0l8r/X8S9gOU!aQiuaWlA9LTQSFDV5vJ7XTU= X-Complaints-To: abuse@dsl.pipex.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@dsl.pipex.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.39 Bytes: 3934 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:670087

On Thu, 2 Oct 2008 03:40:21 -0700 (PDT), natox78@googlemail.com wrote: >I agree that the time is almost right for this group to become >moderated. Unless people take their petty arguments somewhere else, I >can't see a way of getting this group bacl on track.

Just today, I tried (twice) to take the debate between Crapman and me to email. Did he even consider it for a moment? Of course not. I want to debate road safety politics; he just wants to show off and insult people, and he's shit-scared of having a real debate on road safety, because he knows that the unavoidable conclusion of a fair debate would be that he is wrong, and has an anti-motorist agenda dressed up tenuously as road safety. He's desperately frightened of the thought of actually having to address all those points that he's carefully dodged over the last few months.

Clearly the Crapmans of this world are never going to play ball, or admit what their true agenda is. So the only hope you have for getting this group back to discussions about cycling is to eject the lying motorist-haters who pretend to be interested in cycling and road safety (Crapman, Spindrift, Peter Clinch, etc), and only keep and have discussions with those who don't have such hidden agendas. Why would I come here to debate speed cameras etc if no-one here was a vocal supporter of them? Why would I come here if I didn't think that there were any lying extremist motorist-haters to wind up? I find the idea of posting in a forum full of genuine cycling advocates about as exciting as the idea of posting in a forum about knitting (no offence to real cycling advocates, I'm just not interested).

Get the motorist-haters out of here, who only tarnish the reputation of true cycling advocates anyway, and you'll have what you want. But as long as you go along (however grudgingly) with Crapman's pretence that he's somehow "pro-cycling" or concerned with the safety of cyclists, as opposed to simply a car-hater who's too much of a coward to say so, this kind of thing will continue. There are so many people all over the Internet who hate Crapman with a passion that it won't matter if I leave, or if judith leaves, or nully, or anyone else...they'll *always* be someone to replace us. They'll *always* be someone with an axe to grind against Crapman. The only way to stop it is to make it clear to Crapman that he's not welcome.

Dismiss this post as "trolling" if you want, but that won't make it any less true. Crapman must go.