Nuxx:Ac82351b-2524-4981-89da-faebe418f757@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com

Path: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Message-ID:  From: Nuxx Bar  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling Subject: Re: Labyrinthine paranoia Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 10:33:52 -0700 (PDT) References:  <395d142d-7081-4b91-92a8-eed081475f48@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>  <4v3694p551ur5o77fvu7bfi9l29aj6ghgh@4ax.com>    <62v694he87rcu8o6cdt7p55kqkubaq81oe@4ax.com> <13079455mnn1qirkjfafkh8rms8r5n98tj@4ax.com> <0ld894hm7usvq64p0udn48j18lebilhi4e@4ax.com>  Lines: 37 Organization: http://groups.google.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 88.105.129.172 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1217698433 8377 127.0.0.1 (2 Aug 2008 17:33:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 2 Aug 2008 17:33:53 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com; posting-host=88.105.129.172; posting-account=7_6kYAkAAABD6HrjM0VxehwvZOKMxm4g User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-GB; rv:1.9.0.1) Gecko/2008070208 Firefox/3.0.1,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Bytes: 3779 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:660380

On Aug 2, 12:05=A0pm, "Just zis Guy, you know?"  wrote: > No, honestly I think that if drivers could be relied on to set the > appropriate speed for the conditions, there would be no need for > speed limits, certainly not mandatory ones, or traffic calming. =A0To > dismiss traffic calming as a "sop to vociferous locals" is to > trivialise the very real problems that are caused by selfish idiots > who speed past schools and through residential neighbourhoods.

I think the selfish idiots are the ones who (among other things) go too fast (e.g. 30mph in the fog while someone is crossing), not the ones who go at 31mph in the middle of the night. As usual, you know that as well as I do, but it doesn't fit with your pro-camera, anti- motorist campaign so you play the idiot instead.

> Most of the debate seems to me to arise because self-selected > "elite" drivers think that the speed limit is there for the guidance > of those average and below average drivers, not to them.

=2E..which is why at least 99.9% of drivers (no doubt including you) speed. Anyone who genuinely thinks that an unchanging, rounded number on a stick can ever be anything more than a guide has a worrying lack of knowledge about driving in general. You, of course, do not genuinely think that, you just pretend to because it gives you an excuse to support cameras, which continually fine and ban >99.9% of motorists at random, as part of your anti-motorist campaign.

> Unfortunately, most drivers overestimate their own skill.

Even if that were true, it would not follow that the answer was to force all drivers to drive below arbitrary speed limits, with the long list of side effects that that entails. If there is a driver skill shortage, it is best to educate and train them. Sending out false road safety messages about the importance of speed limits just makes the situation worse. Again, you know that perfectly well, and every time you pretend not to know such a thing, it just shows how little you care about all the lives which are being lost on the roads. You're an absolute disgrace.