Nuxx:0gghg41hs6r2l9sdt4doci8ilnf30rmjr7@4ax.com

Path: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local02.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.pipex.net!news.pipex.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: <0gghg41hs6r2l9sdt4doci8ilnf30rmjr7@4ax.com> From: Guy Cuthbertson  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling Subject: I'm Going Now, IF... Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 11:57:54 +0000 Lines: 103 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2008 07:00:01 -0500 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1118 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 88.105.168.51 X-Trace: sv3-WA3vNJJxXDCoN0hbzGeJiJlBtfHBye5bB1iw7FH86OMnDeM3+XArSH05uHKsAqlECz+lJ/cuRM9l23B!zh93BXkEaYlfeo6hf/g282mlVG53oAChlJ3Hyk7pa3Q2eKfXkDINmyEHhpGJysdplZ8ljdNTeFZI!sNVZwF0JL6Kq/qSjXGLz2A== X-Complaints-To: abuse@dsl.pipex.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@dsl.pipex.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.39 Bytes: 6966 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:674421

Right. IF the following conditions are met, then I probably won't bother posting here anymore. It's up to you, trolls.

1. This group will NOT be used by Chapman, Spindrift or their supporters to promote or benefit their "secret" anti-motorist campaigning. This is supposed to be a non-political group about recreational cycling in the UK, not a base for spiteful, socialist extremists to conduct cowardly, veiled assaults on people's freedoms.

Chapman and co will refrain from advocating speed cameras, road humps and other anti-motorist measures which they only support because they hate motorists. People will only advocate measures when they are genuinely and truthfully doing so because they believe that they make the roads safer (and they will of course present verifiable evidence of this). When an accident is discussed, people will look at the factors properly, and not make assumptions about "speeding" or "selfish motorists" being the cause when they have no evidence for this. Whatever is being discussed, no-one will pretend that "speeding" or the speed limit is more important than it actually is when it comes to avoiding accidents.

Those who dislike motorists, and are honest about it, are of course entitled to express their opinions. But there will be no more attempts by the likes of Chapman to disguise anti-motorist sentiment as a wish for"safer roads". Generally, those who claim not to be anti-motorist will be fair to motorists as a whole at *all times*...unless they want the "trolls" posting, of course.

2. There is to be no more discussion of "trolls" where "troll" is used as a byword for "someone who doesn't share the established URC opinion on speed cameras, anti-motorist measures or a similar controversial subject". No-one will boast about having killfiled anyone or having supposedly used PGP or NewsProxy to censor those whose posts they find too close to the bone to read. (Of course, those who have killfiled posters such as Chapman have a legitimate reason for doing so, so they can boast all they want.)

3. There will be no personal attacks on Paul Smith or Claire Armstrong. People will not have a go at Safe Speed or the ABD unless they can come up with good reasons for doing so (and that hasn't happened once yet...no-one's even *tried*). Anyone who simply dislikes such organisations because they dislike motorists should declare that that is the case. Otherwise they are guilty of deception and such deception cannot go uncorrected.

4. No-one will have a go at any of the many posters who have crossed swords with Chapman and co on this group over the years. If you really want such things to be left in the past, don't mention them. Speak of the devil and all that. (BTW, just why does Chapman have *so many* more enemies than he does supporters? It seems that the obvious explanation (that he's incredibly obnoxious and stubborn, a murdering bastard, and impossible to have a civilised debate with) is simply ignored by the sychophants because they'd rather it wasn't true. A bit like how they ignore the fact that deaths stopped falling as they had been when cameras came in.  If the trolls would rather that something wasn't true, they just pretend that it isn't.  It's really quite frightening to think how deluded they must be in general.)

5. No-one will make silly remarks about having supposedly complained to service providers, people having supposedly had accounts terminated, etc. This is yet another example of the tendency for many of the regulars here to claim that something is the case when they have no evidence of it, simply because that's the way they *want* it to be. (I have not had any accounts terminated (unsurprisingly since I've done nothing wrong), although as previously mentioned, I will be changing ISPs soon of my own free will.)

6. Chapman will not lie about what is on his Site Of Hate, what used to be on his Site Of Hate, or his reasons for uploading/deleting/changing content on that site.

7. There will be no derogatory, trouble-making, smart-arse, unhelpful, time-wasting, perverted, or otherwise unacceptable replies to this post. This post is a genuine, bold, noble and wonderful attempt to make things better for everyone, and the trolls should rise to the challenge and respond positively and correctly. If you must be a lying motorist-hater, the least you can do is try to limit the damage that you inflict on your fellow human men people.

8. No-one will do anything else that goes against the spirit of these conditions. NO ANTI-MOTORIST RHETORIC WILL BE TOLERATED. NO PLOTTING AGAINST DRIVERS OR WHIPPING UP OF HATRED BETWEEN CYCLISTS AND MOTORISTS WILL BE TOLERATED. NO DISHONESTY CONCERNING ROAD SAFETY WILL BE TOLERATED. NO DISCRIMINATION AGAINST MOTORISTS FROM THOSE WHO CLAIM NOT TO BE ANTI-MOTORIST WILL BE TOLERATED.

So, trolls, you can either say "Fuck off, I'm not going to do that" (in which case you have no right to complain about the "trolls" sticking around), or you can adhere to the perfectly reasonable conditions set out above, and we'll all have a lovely Christmas (although it would be even nicer for you and others if you would just accept that motorists are legitimate road users, and make an effort to get on with them, both on and off the roads. One day, you'll realise that it's best for everyone if you just learn to accept that motorists are here to stay for the foreseeable future, no matter how much you wish otherwise, and trying to spite them just ups the ante, makes things unpleasant for everyone, and, in some cases at least, COSTS LIVES).

THE LYING, MOTORIST-HATING TROLLS WILL BE DRIVEN OUT OF THE LEGITIMATE, NON-POLITICAL NEWSGROUPS (AS URC IS SUPPOSED TO BE) ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. AND THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT. FUCK OFF, TROLLS.