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Path: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!news4.google.com!feeder.news-service.com!cyclone02.ams2.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!npeersf02.ams.highwinds-media.com!newsfe16.ams2.POSTED!7564ea0f!not-for-mail Message-ID:  From: _  Newsgroups: uk.legal,uk.rec.cycling Subject: Re: Cyclists going through red traffic lights Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:23:32 +0000 References: <72h0pkFpshmdU1@mid.individual.net>    <72jrorFqjg4dU3@mid.individual.net>   <3rl9s4l44mjjghr4i43tqdplou0cebibef@4ax.com> Lines: 74 User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.21 (Windows/20090302) MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3rl9s4l44mjjghr4i43tqdplou0cebibef@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.12.82.202 X-Complaints-To: http://netreport.virginmedia.com X-Trace: newsfe16.ams2 1237641843 86.12.82.202 (Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:24:03 UTC) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 21 Mar 2009 13:24:03 UTC Organization: virginmedia.com Bytes: 5098 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:690455

Peter Grange wrote: > On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 11:14:03 +0000, _  wrote: > >> Peter Grange wrote: >>> On 21 Mar 2009 09:53:31 GMT, "Alex"  wrote: >>> >>>> At 17:42:05 on 20/03/2009, Peter Grange delighted uk.legal by >>>> announcing: >>>> >>>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 13:25:44 +0000, Judith Smith >>>>>  wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, 20 Mar 2009 09:28:53 GMT, "Mrcheerful"  >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Iain wrote: >>>>>>>> I have just walked back from the shops. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As I was going, I came to the traffic lights just by Willesden bus >>>>>>>> garage. Two sets were red. From each of these sets, a cyclist >>>>> went >>> straight through them. >>>>>>>> As I was returning, past the same set of lights, I saw I cyclist >>>>>>>> waiting for the lights to turn green. I felt like giving him one >>>>> of >>> my oranges! >>>>>>>> Can the cycling community not do something to dissuade these >>>>> people >>> from jumping the lights? It certainly causes frustration >>>>> from >>> drivers who have to so frequently watch this deliberate >>>>> flaunting of >>> the law, and continues to give cyclists such a poor >>>>> name - certainly >>> within London. >>>>>>>> Iain >>>>>>> the only thing that might dissuade cyclists from jumping lights >>>>>>> is if their cycles were likely to be confiscated if they get >>>>>>> caught doing it. it would only need a few examples well >>>>>>> publicised to encourage the rest. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Ride on pavement - or run a red light - cycle confiscated - >>>>>> excellent. >>>>> drive car on pavement, >>>> Except for driving a few feet *onto* a pavement when parking, I don't >>>> think I've ever seen a car being driven on a pavement. >>> And is that, or is it not, driving on a pavement? >>> (often just to illegally park there) >> Why do you unfailingly criticise car drivers transgressions while >> regularly condoning similar offences by cyclists? Is it because you're >> blind to it, or are you content being a hypocritical turd? > > Please point out where I regularly condone illegal acts by cyclists. I > have posted here that I do not condone crossing red lights and I do > not condone riding or driving on the pavements. > The 'you' should be inferred in a wider sense to include the whole of URC, rather than individually *you*. I'm sure you dont need examples of it now I've clarified it, but you only need ask if you do.

> What I will respond to is childish posts by people claiming to be from > the motoring community (and I speak as a motorist and a cyclist, I've > said that before too) suggesting such things as a cyclist crossing a > red light should be run over and possibly killed, or should have their > cycle confiscated. > I dont remember anyone suggesting they should be *killed*, more that if they *are* killed following an RLJ then they dont really have a leg to stand on. Metaphorically speaking... If you climb over the safety railing on the Humber bridge and then trip over a carelessly abandoned paintbrush before plummeting to your doom, who do you think is 'at fault' for the incident? If you think there is a percentage, tell us which numbers work for you. Not got the bridge authority 100% to blame? Good. Now explain why its somehow different for a cyclist being struck by a motorist proceeding on a green light?

> Legal penalties already exist for such transgressions. Anyone who > believes they are not being applied in the appropriate manner would be > better off complaining to their MP or Chief Constable rather than > posting to a cyclist newsgroup threatening to kill cyclists.