Nuxx:Ea68fc17-bbd7-47b2-89f4-1b81b3737448@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com

Path: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Message-ID:  From: Nuxx Bar  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling Subject: Re: Labyrinthine paranoia Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 15:53:34 -0700 (PDT) References:    <395d142d-7081-4b91-92a8-eed081475f48@t54g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>  <4v3694p551ur5o77fvu7bfi9l29aj6ghgh@4ax.com>   <40d6949900pjpg8999iruch5j0vsmdlqvo@4ax.com>  Lines: 58 Organization: http://groups.google.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 88.105.145.93 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1217631215 27846 127.0.0.1 (1 Aug 2008 22:53:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2008 22:53:35 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com; posting-host=88.105.145.93; posting-account=7_6kYAkAAABD6HrjM0VxehwvZOKMxm4g User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-GB; rv:1.9.0.1) Gecko/2008070208 Firefox/3.0.1,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Bytes: 4528 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:660275

On Aug 1, 10:23=A0pm, Jeff York  wrote: > "Just zis Guy, you know?"  wrote: > > >On Fri, 01 Aug 2008 17:01:41 +0100, Jeff York  > >said in : > > >>I'm sorry, but that is utter bollocks. > > >Close: Smith's "research" was utter bollocks. > > He didn't do any "research"... It was all done by TRL and other road > safety organisations. All he did was apply normal and correct > statistical analytical methods in place of the, sometimes very > amateur, work that was presented as "fact". > > >... He said one or two > >things that were, purely by coincidence, correct, but his agenda was > >to oppose enforcement. > > No it wasn't. He was for sensible enforcement by traditional and > proven means. He was an advocate of speed limits and safety through > training. I don't see anything "cranky" about that - and neither did > the numerous newspapers, the BBC and ITV who all featured him as a > "Road Safety Campaigner". > > >... =A0I corresponded with him on this subject for > >a while before he went completely strange. > > I get the impression that corresponding with you on *any* subject > could result in "strangeness" on behalf of the correspondent.

Jeff, you've made some excellent points in this exchange and others. You've done a fine job of showing that either Chapman is too stupid to understand what Paul wrote, or he just pretends not to understand because that would entail an admission that Paul was correct (and then where would the anti-motorist crusade be?) It is of course the latter.

I admire you for breaking ranks and stating that Paul was broadly correct, even though you're a cyclist and a respected regular on this newsgroup (and most people in that position seem to think that they're "not allowed" to agree with Paul, for fear of reprisals from the anti- motorist machine). Because you are a regular, Chapman is unable to dismiss you as a "troll" or similar whenever he's being beaten, and has to actually address your points properly and without attacking you, which is a joy to behold. It's clear that when you strip away the ad hominem, the lies, and the many duplicitous "debating" techniques from Chapman's posts, there's not a lot left.

Thank you for having the courage to state what you really, honestly believe about speed cameras, and realising that saving people's lives is infinitely more important than attempting to force socialism on everyone by making things unpleasant for normal, decent drivers who are law-abiding except (possibly) for when it is safe and reasonable to go faster than the number on the stick. You have set a wonderful example for the other regulars who know perfectly well that cameras don't save lives, but have been pressured into keeping quiet or even saying the opposite. Bravo!