Nuxx:59ea9852-7005-4146-939a-2441b56b2e68@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com

Path: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nx02.iad.newshosting.com!newshosting.com!69.16.185.16.MISMATCH!npeer02.iad.highwinds-media.com!news.highwinds-media.com!feed-me.highwinds-media.com!postnews.google.com!p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Message-ID: <59ea9852-7005-4146-939a-2441b56b2e68@p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com> From: Nuxx Bar  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling Subject: Calls for Speeding Ticket Refunds Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 12:51:34 -0800 (PST) Lines: 123 Organization: http://groups.google.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.160.137.186 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1231447894 20536 127.0.0.1 (8 Jan 2009 20:51:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2009 20:51:34 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: p2g2000prn.googlegroups.com; posting-host=86.160.137.186; posting-account=7_6kYAkAAABD6HrjM0VxehwvZOKMxm4g User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-GB; rv:1.9.0.5) Gecko/2008120122 Firefox/3.0.5,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Bytes: 7029 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:682554

Doubtless the trolls, who are the first to say that "the law is the law" when criticising drivers who exceed ludicrously low speed limits, aren't so bothered about thieving scamera pratnershits enforcing "speed limits" which they know to be inadequately signed. Doubtless those who use their legal right to fight unfair, unlawful speeding tickets are "just trying to wriggle out of it" as far as the trolls are concerned. "The law is the law" is only important when it can be used *against* motorists.

It's the same with "the environment": it's only important when the car- haters see an opportunity to use it to restrict motorists. When it is pointed out that (for example) it's better for the environment if traffic is kept flowing, rather than being made to needlessly stop and start by anti-motorist measures such as obstructively-phased traffic lights and unnecessary bus lanes, those "environmentalists" who are actually closet motorist-haters and/or socialists (and/or outfits who are simply out to make a profit for bus and train companies, like Campaign for "Better" Transport, formerly Twatsport 1000) show their true colours by at best ignoring such statements, and at worst attempting to censor them.

It's a similar story with "safety" of course: again, the motorist- haters expose their real agenda by advocating speed cameras, narrowed roads, road humps and other so-called "safety" measures which are really just anti-motorist measures, but being against real safety measures such as straightened roads, bypasses, road upgrades, pedestrian subways and widening, since they would make things easier for motorists (and never mind if fewer people DIE: the campaign to bully and frustrate motorists off the road must take precedence).

It's absolutely appalling that these people are prepared to deliberately weaken vital safety- and environment-related efforts with false messages, just because they have some crazy, unworkable, nutcase idea that we would be better off without cars. If they really think things would be so great without cars, why aren't they honest about their agenda, instead of trying to get their anti-motorist policies in via the back door by pretending to care about safety and the environment? If the benefits of a car-free world are so obvious, why are they not trying to sell them to people in a truthful, above-board fashion? Doug may be a fruitcake, and his advocacy of Critical Mass is unforgivable, but he does at least admit that he hates cars, and is at least honest about wanting a car-free world, instead of dressing it up as concern for safety or the environment. Other car-haters would claw back a modicum of credibility if they were to follow his example (with the exception of the likes of C***man and S***drift, who have long gone beyond the point where they will never earn any credibility in the eyes of anyone who matters).

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/crapman-hates-motorists/7817976.stm

Calls for speeding ticket refunds

Bosses admitted there are "signage problems" on the A35 in Southampton

A campaigner says drivers caught by speed cameras on a stretch of road in Southampton should be refunded because the signage is illegal.

Tony Seaton claims there are 21 defects with signs on the A35 at Millbrook - making speeding fines invalid.

He has posted a video on YouTube showing a range of "defects" and lodged a complaint with transport bosses.

But Hampshire Safer Roads Partnership, which admits there are "signage problems", ruled out any refunds.

Julian Hewitt, from the partnership, said checks were always made before enforcement was set up.

"We don't carry out enforcement on a road where it is illegal or unclear," he added.

"I can say that no motorists have been wrongly accredited tickets.

"I think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup, we are aware of some signage problems and are working with our partners to rectify these."

I don't like things to be unjust and unfair. Motorists absolutely have a case [for refunds] Tony Seaton

Mr Seaton, from Rownhams, previously challenged a speeding ticket due to signage issues and the case was dropped.

He also helped 16 motorists in Fareham last year whose cases were dropped, again over signage grounds.

He said: "I don't like things to be unjust and unfair.

"Motorists absolutely have a case [for refunds].

"It is just nonsense and they have to learn to follow the rules."

The Department for Transport said it is the responsibility of local authorities to provide, maintain and - if necessary - illuminate signs.

But the courts will take into account certain practicalities.

Councillor Mel Kendal, member for environment at Hampshire County Council, said: "Our responsibility for the A35 is from the river bridge to the west.

"We have not had signs in place since a lorry crashed through the gantry.

"The new reminder signs are on schedule to be in place at the end of this week.

Councillor Matt Dean, member for environment and transport at Southampton City Council, said: "We will continue to consider the recommendations by the Safer Roads Partnership before deciding if further action needs to be taken on the segment of this route which the council is responsible for maintaining."

Guy "Fuckwit" Chapman, chairman of the UK Anti-Motorist Association, said: "The more anti-motorist measures the better, whether or not they're within the law." When asked why he hated motorists so much, Chapman, 66, replied: "I don't. Whatever in the world gave you that idea?  Advocating every single anti-motorist measure in existence doesn't mean that I hate motorists.  My website doesn't have anything about me being anti-motorist, at least not since I changed it the other week."