Nuxx:176d9ba8-5d2c-40de-814a-5074a9d2ddbd@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com

Path: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Message-ID: <176d9ba8-5d2c-40de-814a-5074a9d2ddbd@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com> From: Nuxx Bar  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling Subject: It's The Same Everywhere Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 16:37:46 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 163 Organization: http://groups.google.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 88.105.206.99 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1221867466 21488 127.0.0.1 (19 Sep 2008 23:37:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:37:46 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com; posting-host=88.105.206.99; posting-account=7_6kYAkAAABD6HrjM0VxehwvZOKMxm4g User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-GB; rv:1.9.0.1) Gecko/2008070208 Firefox/3.0.1,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Bytes: 10086 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:668635

The world over, traffic "enforcement" cameras are invariably supported and implemented by dishonest lowlife scum who care nothing about safety, and are only interested in scamming and punishing motorists who haven't done anything wrong in real terms ("except for the fact that they're driving at all," think the trolls, who are of course too cowardly to admit to thinking any such thing). In Italy, we have the below example. In the US, there have been many similar examples of parasites stealing from motorists by altering traffic light timings. In the UK, we have the infamous "safety" camera partnerships and their constant, outrageous and self-serving lies about how well cameras have worked.

And in the UK, we also have the absolute NOBHEADS in places like urc, who only support cameras because they hate motorists, and make it entirely obvious that they don't really believe that cameras save lives by their constant disingenuous "discussion" tactics, including but not limited to lying, deliberately misrepresenting their opponents, pretending not to understand their opponents, repeatedly ignoring difficult questions, and lots, lots more...you only have to look at almost any of Crapman's anti-motorist posts to see at least one example of such things. His reply to me in the recent Manchester Con Charge thread is a textbook instance: it is entirely obvious to anyone that he deliberately misrepresents me in that post. It's not a matter of opinion, it's there in black and white: I say one thing, and he makes out that I've said something completely different, in order to dodge and/or distract from a difficult point (in this case, the fact that he supports con charging and refuses to consider other, less anti-motorist ways of relieving congestion, of which there are plenty...now why would he be so reluctant to consider them?)

Virtually EVERY post of his contains similar underhandedness, in a desperate (and utterly laughable and futile) effort to hide his absurd and vicious anti-car agenda. He really is a thoroughly nasty piece of work, and his constant dishonest and malicious tactics make it clear that he knows exactly what the score is with cameras costing lives (no- one who really thought that cameras saved lives would behave like him), but he's determined to support them anyway, because he'd rather kill people than stop giving motorists a hard time. Bastard. If his support of cameras came from misguidedness or dementia (*ahem* Spindrift), he could be forgiven, but what kind of cold, calculating monster could be so heartless as to actually want people to die in their thousands just so that car drivers could be made miserable? What a complete shit, eh? He needs putting to sleep for the good of humanity.

Would Crapman and the other hard-hearted trolls feel the need to employ such tactics if they really believed that cameras worked? Of course they wouldn't. If they thought they had the truth on their side, they would debate properly, fairly and honestly. But they absolutely do not, because they know that if they did, they would very quickly be forced to admit that cameras didn't save lives. They KNOW that cameras don't work, but they pretend to think otherwise because they want motorists to be given hell. It's just another example of the way that cameras are universally attractive to despicable, lying, agenda-driven pieces of shit who have no conscience whatsoever and really couldn't care less if their support of cameras leads to THOUSANDS OF UNNECESSARY DEATHS. It's always the same: wherever there are cameras, there are parasitic, thieving, lying bastards who see the cameras solely as a way of them raising revenue and/or making driving a misery. The spurious and unfair nature of cameras is such that scumbags like that will *always* gravitate towards them, like flies to shit. They're the types of people who have no problem with ripping people off and being dishonest, but don't have the guts to be criminals, so they look for legal ways of stealing from people and making their lives a misery instead.

Not one camera partnership-type organisation is run transparently, honestly and with the right aims in mind, and not one camera supporter is both well-informed and genuinely concerned with saving people's lives. Those administering and defending cameras appear to find it impossible to be honest, sincere, open and fair with the statistics that they come up with. Even without the overwhelming other evidence that cameras don't save lives, that would be a pretty good indication that cameras are the wrong way to go about things. Anything that is almost exclusively supported and implemented by the wrong types of people (like liars, charlatans, idiots, thieves, control freaks, motorist-haters, and headcases (e.g. Spindrift)) is extremely unlikely to be a help to the general public, and so it has come to pass with cameras.

Perhaps the trolls here are fooling themselves about just how obvious it is to everyone that cameras are a con, because if they did realise how obvious it was, they would surely give up pretending that the cameras worked, say "Oh well, we nearly got the motorist scum this time, but we didn't...no point in kidding ourselves", and focus their anti-motorist efforts elsewhere. After all, they seem pretty keen to keep their anti-motorist agenda a secret, yet their dogged support of cameras (and their complete and continued inability to justify such support) means that that agenda couldn't possibly be much more apparent. It's rather sad that they're so stupid really. The fact that they absolutely refuse to condemn unacceptable behaviour like that detailed below is YET MORE evidence, if it were even remotely needed, that they only like cameras because they persecute motorists. Someone who liked cameras because they thought they saved lives would be quick to condemn the below behaviour; someone who liked cameras for anti-motorist reasons would refuse to do so (in fact they'd be pleased about it). So it's no surprise that the trolls fall into the second category. Scum. Subhuman scum.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1057525/Italian-police-sm= ash-doctored-traffic-light-scam-cost-motorists-5m-suspect-fines.html

Four people have been arrested and dozens of others under investigation after Italian police smashed a doctored traffic light scam though to have cost motorists more than =A35million in suspect fines.

Detectives acting on a tip-off carried out a six-month operation on dozens of traffic lights installed on roads across Italy.

The scam involved the timing mechanism which gives a three-second delay between changing from amber and red to the full red stop.

In the doctored traffic lights there was no pause - the lights went directly to red, triggering flash cameras which meant a 137 Euro (=A3107) fine for duped motorists.

The smashing of the scam is expected to lead to thouands of claims from disgruntled motorists who were wrongly penalised and who were also given three penalty points for going through a red light. Full stop: The scam has been given the red light

Full stop: The scam has been given the red light

Police in Milan where the operation was centred said that the lights were installed with the full knowledge of corrupt council officials and traffic wardens.

Besides Milan and the surrounding suburbs they were also installed in more than thirty councils across the country from Venice, down to Pisa and Benevento in the south, as well as at Alghero in Sardinia.

British holidaymakers in hire cars or their own vehicles are also thought to be amongst those caught up in the scam.

The investigation was lead by Milan prosecutor Alfredo Robledo - the same prosecutor involved in the corruption case of David Mills, estranged husband of Olympics Minister Tessa Jowell.

Corrupt council officials and traffic wardens were contacted by Raoul Cairoli, 38, director of the Rovellesca company near Milan which distribute the T-red traffic lights as they are known and whow as arrested.

Also held was Giuseppe Astorri, 51, of SCAE, the firm that made the traffic lights as well as two other businessmen involved in the scam named Simone Zari, 43 and Antonino Tysserand, 43.

The investigation was launched in February after a traffic warden named as Stefano Papalia told police about the scam.

Italian consumer association Codacons said:"We believe that thousands of motorists were unjustifably given fines for going through red lights and we are taking up their case."

A Milan police spokesman said: "Four people have been arrested as part of the scam but investigations are ongoing.

"The fraud centred on doctored traffic lights and the timing mechanisms within them.

"The charges are fraud and corruption and further arrests are expected."