Nuxx:7e7c5e9f-7501-4da4-b852-8a8fca3687f4@s28g2000vbp.googlegroups.com

Path: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!s28g2000vbp.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Message-ID: <7e7c5e9f-7501-4da4-b852-8a8fca3687f4@s28g2000vbp.googlegroups.com> From: Nuxx Bar  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling Subject: Re: Good Laws v Bad Laws Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 11:19:57 -0700 (PDT) References:    Lines: 53 Organization: http://groups.google.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.156.251.147 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1239128397 2056 127.0.0.1 (7 Apr 2009 18:19:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 18:19:57 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: s28g2000vbp.googlegroups.com; posting-host=81.156.251.147; posting-account=7_6kYAkAAABD6HrjM0VxehwvZOKMxm4g User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-GB; rv:1.9.0.8) Gecko/2009032609 Firefox/3.0.8 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Bytes: 4175 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:693976

On Apr 7, 12:25=A0am, JNugent  wrote: > Simon Mason wrote: > > Drivers are given more than enough warnings, advice, speed awareness > > courses, media coverage of safety camera positions that only idiots nee= d > > get fined. I have had no speeding fines for 13 years - my wife has had > > 3. Why is this? > > Don't go on about it. > > We already know that you don't think much of your wife - you've made that > very clear.

I'm sure that, in reality, he has a huge amount of respect for her. And this is one of the problems with an irrational position such as support of discretionless enforcement of speed limits: otherwise decent, reasonable people who decide to take such a position frequently find themselves saying rather cruel, unreasonable and sometimes outright stupid things while they're tying themselves into knots trying to justify that position. It's just the sort of thing that happens when one is trying to advocate a point of view which is incorrect.

In this case, it's a case of "People that break speed limits are reckless, dangerous, irresponsible criminals. My wife has been done for speeding.  Therefore my wife is a reckless, dangerous, irresponsible criminal." As soon as one makes the irrational point that speeders are reckless, one cannot get out of saying that one's wife is irresponsible once one's wife has been identified as a speeder. One incorrect statement inevitably leads to another.

I know that if I ever find myself wanting to say illogical or plainly stupid things while arguing a point, it's probably time to take a step back and reconsider whether the point I'm arguing is really correct after all. Maybe it's time that Simon did that with regard to speed cameras. He's already said many absurd things while defending that stance (e.g. "shoplifting is as bad as speeding"; somehow I doubt he'd be at all happy if his wife took to thieving from the local corner shop).

With the likes of Simon, who genuinely believe what they are saying, and genuinely want things to be better for everyone, there's always hope that they'll see the light. Unfortunately, there are those who claim to think that speed cameras work when really they know they don't, and the only reason they do that is because they hate motorists, and they therefore want the cameras for that reason. Those people are not worth trying to reason with, unlike Simon, as they are lying fuckwits who just want motorists to be given hell, no matter what the price in terms of safety. Chapman and Spindrift are just two of the large number of such people on urc. This is why my attitude towards the likes of Simon is different to my attitude towards the likes of Chapman (and there's also the fact that Simon is polite, and doesn't just call anyone who disagrees with him a "troll").