Nuxx:Ec1bb474-c254-4d9a-a2ea-d22095b55a80@r9g2000prd.googlegroups.com

Path: number1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!r9g2000prd.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Message-ID:  From: Nuxx Bar  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling Subject: Re: Father of killed cyclist hits out at danger junction Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 15:14:08 -0700 (PDT) References:  <23pgv35pgfh4ig8hrvvqp2jatsa4fh02gj@4ax.com>   <65s8lfF2hbt1qU1@mid.individual.net> <65sgrdF2gjfqcU1@mid.individual.net>  <9m6jv3tuemn6sd61nfe1gilb5258dkqd7p@4ax.com>   Lines: 56 Organization: http://groups.google.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 88.105.204.241 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1207606449 23215 127.0.0.1 (7 Apr 2008 22:14:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2008 22:14:09 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: r9g2000prd.googlegroups.com; posting-host=88.105.204.241; posting-account=7_6kYAkAAABD6HrjM0VxehwvZOKMxm4g User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.13) Gecko/20080311 Firefox/2.0.0.13,gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Bytes: 4142 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:646409

On Apr 7, 9:33 am, spindrift  wrote: > On 7 Apr, 09:23, Peter Fox  wrote: > > > > > Tom Crispin wrote: > > > On Sun, 06 Apr 2008 22:14:51 -0500, Jeff  > > > wrote: > > > >> Drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists, need to share the roads. To do so > > >> sensibly requires that each group understand the needs of the others. > > >> As a prior poster noted, every vehicle has blind spots. Do pedestrians > > >> and cyclists consider that and attempt to position themselves in visible > > >> spots (I do)? Do they even know how large lorries operate? When you're > > >> a mouse living amongst elephants, you ought to know a bit about > > >> elephants for your own safety. > > > > While educating the public about the dangers of large vehicles is a > > > laudable ambition, the practical difficulties of such a task are > > > immense. > > > OK then the sooner we get started the better! > > > > The onus must be on the driver of any vehicle - especially those of > > > large vehicles - to show care and consideration to those around them. > > > If drivers are not prepared to show that care and consideration to > > > those around them, they should not be allowed to drive. > > > You have jumped to a conclusion. You somehow assume that the driver was > > negligent. Really? - He had eyes in the back of his head but wasn't using > > them? He could tell by instinct how many cyclists were queuing up to sneak > > in front could he? > > > > Designers of these vehicles, as others have said, must also take > > > responsibility for the safety of those outside the cab. But as the > > > end user, drivers should refuse to drive vehicles which they deem to > > > be fundamentaly unsafe for other road users. And if they do choose to > > > drive such a vehicle, they should be accountable if they kill someone > > > while doing so. > > > Oh I see, lorry drivers should be held responsible not even for their > > actions but their compliance with accepted practice but cyclists who breeze > > along willy-nilly are exempt from personal responsibility. > > > -- > > Peter Fox > > Beer, dancing, cycling and lots more atwww.vulpeculox.net > > (Note web site has moved April 2008) > > I repeat, there is no evidence that madeleine was "sneaking" alongside > the lorry or "breeaing along willy nilly". > > A bit less victim-blaming please.

A bit less non-cyclist-blaming-no-matter-what-the-circumstances, please.