Nuxx:1c5d8536-8973-4217-a611-b269a3470bf2@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com

Path: num2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!num1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!number.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Message-ID: <1c5d8536-8973-4217-a611-b269a3470bf2@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> From: Nuxx Bar  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling Subject: Re: A Good Day for Proper Road Safety: Swindon Ditches Fixed Speed Cameras Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 09:38:48 -0700 (PDT) References: <6acaf78b-555d-47c6-b454-2b0bf5529be4@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>  Lines: 53 Organization: http://groups.google.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.156.193.13 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1249144729 6122 127.0.0.1 (1 Aug 2009 16:38:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 16:38:49 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com; posting-host=81.156.193.13; posting-account=7_6kYAkAAABD6HrjM0VxehwvZOKMxm4g User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.0.12) Gecko/2009070611 Firefox/3.0.12 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Bytes: 4176 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:721983

On Aug 1, 10:08=A0am, Ben C  wrote: > On 2009-08-01, Nuxx Bar  wrote: > [...] > > > On the other hand, speed cameras are the most anti-motorist of the > > "road safety" options that we currently have > > No they aren't. "Traffic calming" is much worse. It's also cheaper and > therefore far more prevalent.

I suppose that in some ways, road humps are worse then cameras, as they damage vehicles (whatever speed they go at...I'm sure the spiteful car-haters just love that), and have other negative effects, e.g. imprisoning people with back problems or similar in their own homes (because they find it so painful going over humps on or near their road). *Maybe* I'd rather have cameras than them, although we shouldn't have either since they both cause an increase in accidents. But of course humps don't discriminate against those who have correct number plates and register their vehicles, or get safe drivers banned completely unnecessarily. At least there can be no suspicion that road humps are being abused to make money for central government, however.

There's something particularly mean-spirited about cameras, and the incredible bias and presumption of guilt exhibited against anyone who dares to defend themselves against a speeding charge in court (you see the same kind of attitude on here: "He was snapped by a camera, of course he was guilty, and he's just trying to wriggle out of it"). Then we get the same old lies and deceptions from the camera partnerships and manufacturers as they desperately try to justify their existence by trying to cover the facts (do you think that if they thought cameras didn't work, they'd just admit it? No, they'd rather have drivers' money than prevent unnecessary road deaths.)  It seems that cameras have brought about a large amount of dishonesty, abuse of process, wishful thinking and general nastiness from many of those who operate, defend and/or and benefit from them.

> Gatsos aren't a big problem.Set your satnav to bong for them and slow > down as you go past. You shouldn't get caught if your observations are > good, and your progress will not be significantly impeded.

I don't disagree with that, as long as the Gatso is visible. If you get caught by such a camera then yes, you're being unobservant. Mobile cameras are far worse from a "possibility of getting caught when you're observing well" standpoint. However both camera types have been shown to increase accidents, so neither should be there.

> They're a good political compromise.

Disagree. If they saved lives then of course I'd be all for them. But they don't. And since they don't, they are failing at their stated aim (improving road safety), and so they should be removed, and it is not necessary to look into the matter any further.