Nuxx:7cec2a08-d805-4d79-9cb3-009d6d2391a5@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com

Path: num2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!num1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!number.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Message-ID: <7cec2a08-d805-4d79-9cb3-009d6d2391a5@v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com> From: Nuxx Bar  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling Subject: Re: Cycling on pavements! Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 14:46:01 -0700 (PDT) References: <7z58m.11568$ay4.1287@newsfe27.ams2> <170b0f31-14b0-4fbc-a336-a50c6182a0ce@a7g2000yqk.googlegroups.com> <52663ab5-a932-45c7-b07b-d4e3f55a3831@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com> Lines: 57 Organization: http://groups.google.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 86.145.66.52 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: posting.google.com 1248299161 1716 127.0.0.1 (22 Jul 2009 21:46:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Jul 2009 21:46:01 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: v20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com; posting-host=86.145.66.52; posting-account=7_6kYAkAAABD6HrjM0VxehwvZOKMxm4g User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.0.11) Gecko/2009060215 Firefox/3.0.11 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Bytes: 4381 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:719404

On Jul 18, 8:41=A0am, Simon Brooke  wrote: > On 18 July, 06:40, Doug  wrote: > > > On 17 July, 21:55, "alan.holmes"  wrote:> = What is the feeling of members of this group? > > > > I'm quite happy about people cycling on pavements as a lot of roads a= re very > > > dangerous due to potholes and sunken drains. > > > No to mention highly dangerous drivers. I'm not happy about it but I > > can well understand why some cyclists are so fearful of our roads that > > they choose the safest option instead. > > Yes, but the solution to that is to get those drivers who are highly > dangerous, off the road permanently, not to but bicycles on the > pavement. Bicycles are not safe on the pavement, and the solution is > not to make pavements more dangerous, it's to make the roads safer. So > we should take driving licences away much more frequently. We should > take them away for a couple of months for things we currently award > small fines or points for; and we should take them away permanently > for any accident involving serious injury or death. > > This is not 'anti-car' or 'anti-driver'.

Oh COME ON. You're saying someone should lose their licence for one speeding "offence". So, you're saying motorists should be banned outright for doing something that every driver does. You could hardly be any more anti-car than that. You're advocating a ludicrously harsh punishment for an everyday driving behaviour which is done completely safely billions of times a day. Sounds awfully similar to something a car-hater would come up with to me.

If (hypothetically of course) you did hate motorists, and you weren't entirely honest, you'd look to abuse legislation which was intended for safety to inflict as much pain as possible on motorists, wouldn't you? And "Ban drivers for one speeding offence" is something you'd very likely come up with if you really had it in for motorists, since that way you're maximising the punishment *and* punishing as many motorists as possible, as often as possible.

If you really think that's not an anti-motorist thing to say, and you're not just lying in the way that car-haters so often do, you need your head examining, and you cannot be trusted to make impartial or logical "moderation" decisions.

If I said cyclists should be banned from cycling for jumping red lights, not wearing helmets, cycling on the pavement, not signalling, etc, you'd probably say I was anti-cyclist, and probably censor my comment if it were on uk.rec.cycling.censored. If I claimed I was advocating such measures for safety-related reasons, you'd probably say that was just an excuse to inflict punishments on cyclists because I didn't like them. The exact same thing applies to your comments in relation to car drivers, and you surely know that. Advocating absurdly and obviously disproportionate punishments for safe driving behaviours is anti-motorist and no mistake. Let's stop pretending otherwise please.