Nuxx:MPG.2792cf7f9f433ac9989852@news.zen.co.uk

Path: num2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!num1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!number.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border3.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-out1.kabelfoon.nl!newsfeed.kabelfoon.nl!xindi.nntp.kabelfoon.nl!zen.net.uk!hamilton.zen.co.uk!shaftesbury.zen.co.uk.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID:  From: Nuxx Bar  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling,uk.rec.driving Subject: Quoth the Raven: "Never [Drive Any]more" Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2011 19:46:42 -0000 Lines: 35 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: MicroPlanet-Gravity/2.9.14 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 110108-0, 08/01/2011), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Organization: Zen Internet NNTP-Posting-Host: 4d55bfd6.news.zen.co.uk X-Trace: DXC=F`nC_eKkOce;j@8IDJoe@hnok4Z\OSV:fEn<S9LLeaZm7j=2@?<iZ^d X-Complaints-To: abuse@zen.co.uk Bytes: 3045 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:796036

Tony Raven, mileburner, squashme, Doug and/or similar types: would you say that you are anti-motorist? Do you want most or all motorists to stop driving?

Bearing in mind that the vast majority of drivers speed (and let's not be silly and pretend otherwise just because it doesn't suit us), do you see speed cameras as a useful way of punishing and deterring driving in general? How about things like chicanes and other obstructions: presumably you support them? If you support them because you think they directly benefit safety then you must surely be able to cite figures which show that they do indeed reliably have such benefits? Or is it more the case that you're not really bothered about whether they directly benefit safety, it's more about making motoring more difficult so that people stop driving and the roads are "made safer" that way?

How about bus lanes? Do you support them primarily because they supposedly make bus times quicker, or because they deter motoring? If it were shown that bus times weren't made any quicker by bus lanes then would you stop supporting them?

Doesn't this whole notion of deterring motorists by bullying them and making things unpleasant for them rest upon the assumption that they don't need to make their journey by car, as they can either switch to other forms of transport or not make the journey at all? Do you accept that at least some of the time, the only practical way of making a journey is by car, and therefore that journey is "legitimate"? What is the point of deliberately making things unpleasant for such drivers...doesn't the resulting frustration actually increase the likelihood of collisions?

Perhaps we should start a permit system for "legitimate" car journeys, and only bully those without permits? Or maybe, just maybe, silly negative attempts to force people out of their cars aren't the way to do things? Why don't we make a concerted effort to make public transport cheaper, more attractive and more far-reaching instead?