Nuxx:Ec7001a9-18f0-423a-86ac-83703ed46c2e@o30g2000vbc.googlegroups.com

Path: num2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!num1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!number.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!postnews.google.com!o30g2000vbc.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Message-ID:  From: Nuxx Bar  Newsgroups: uk.rec.cycling Subject: An Alternative to Moderation Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 15:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Lines: 65 Organization: http://groups.google.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.156.251.27 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1243377206 11875 127.0.0.1 (26 May 2009 22:33:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 22:33:26 +0000 (UTC) Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: o30g2000vbc.googlegroups.com; posting-host=81.156.251.27; posting-account=7_6kYAkAAABD6HrjM0VxehwvZOKMxm4g User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-GB; rv:1.9.0.10) Gecko/2009042316 Firefox/3.0.10 (.NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe),gzip(gfe) Bytes: 4318 Xref: perfectly-safe.chapmancentral.co.uk uk.rec.cycling:704456

Many have said that they would prefer it if this group could go back to the "good old days", when it was an interesting group about cycling which didn't need moderation. Well, the good news is that the good old days could once again be a reality, and it's very easily achieved (far more easily than any form of moderation).

How could this wonderful new URC be created? Simple. Step 1: get rid of Chapman. Step 2: get rid of Spindrift. That's it! I can "infestation" etc that this group attracts would disappear within days.
 * guarantee* that pretty much all of the controversy, "trolling",

Those two posters, especially Chapman, attract the "trolls" through their terrible reputations throughout the Internet. The evidence for that is there for all to see: look at the abuse that Chapman deservedly gets. Why, then, is a horribly complex "solution" being proposed which doesn't even address the root cause of the problem? Just get rid of Chapman and Spindrift: that's all that's required.

ADVANTAGES OF GETTING RID OF CHAPMAN AND SPINDRIFT OVER "MODERATION":

1. Very easy to implement. Simply tell them to get lost, everyone killfile them, and (if necessary) set up a "moderated" group where there is no moderation other than to ban those two posters on sight. Compare this to the ongoing hassle and irritation involved with creating an actual "moderated" group.

2. No ongoing moderation, or any other work, necessary.

3. No controversy over moderation policy, because there wouldn't be one.

4. No controversy over who submits the RFD or who's on the moderating panel, because there wouldn't be one.

5. Back to the "good old days", when proper cycling discussions took place without the need for moderation.

6. No need for two groups, where interesting discussions in one group could be missed by those who only read the other.

7. No need to find excuses to ban posters simply for their opinions.

I'm sure there are loads more advantages, but I can't be bothered to think of them. However, for anyone who isn't in the "Chapman is infallible" club, I'm sure it's perfectly clear that this proposal is the much more elegant, practical, and effective of the two. It would get the result that people actually want, whereas the "moderation" proposal is almost guaranteed to turn into an extended bickering session and fail to one extent or another. It would also get this result very quickly, within days, whereas the "moderation" nonsense would take AGES to even get off the ground, let alone have meaningful results.

Think about how little drain this would have on people's time; think about whether it's better to address the root cause of the problem or simply a few of the apparent symptoms; think about whether you want a URC like the old days or two fragmented groups which will never be the same again. You *know* that this proposal is the better, even if you're one of the "Chapman is infallible" club, and if you *are* in that particular club, perhaps this is the perfect moment to realise that your membership of that club is part of the problem here, resign immediately, and support this proposal.

Ithankyou.